Talk Justice, an LSC Podcast: Modern Approaches to Expungement
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Carl Rauscher
Director of Communications and Media Relations
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WASHINGTON–Legal experts share their perspectives on the expungement process in the latest episode of LSC's “Talk Justice” podcast, released today. Jason Tashea, a member of LSC’s Emerging Leaders Council, hosts the conversation with guests Noella Sudbury, CEO of the Raza Benefit Corporation and founder of Clean Slate Utah; Sarah Lageson, author and associate professor at Rutgers University School of Criminal Justice; and Yousef Kassim, co-founder and CEO of Easy Expunctions.
About one-third of the U.S. population has a criminal record, which can result from convictions, arrests that were never tried, and trials that did not result in conviction. These records can be barriers to securing housing and employment. Many people do not know that their record is eligible for expungement, or they struggle to initiate the process.
“The problem is that the petition-based process is costly, it's complicated, most people need a lawyer to get through the process, [but] most people can't afford a lawyer, and so that's why you're seeing these super low uptake rates all across states,” says Sudbury. “Even though there is that legal remedy available, most states don't have a centralized process, and it's very, very difficult and expensive to get through.”
In the digital age, it’s unclear whether record clearing is truly possible. Lageson explains that public record standards that were put in place to hold police and courts accountable through transparency have led to the unintended consequence of hindering individuals’ privacy. These records contain personal information that is very valuable to data brokers and third party “background check” websites.
There has been an abundance of legislative action around expungement in the past few years, some of which has centered around “Clean Slate” laws that automate the process. Since 2018, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Colorado, Delaware, Oklahoma, Connecticut and Utah have passed Clean Slate legislation.
“We can just write computer code to analyze government records to determine who's eligible to clear their record, and then the government can do it automatically,” says Sudbury.
While this approach does take the burden off individuals to navigate the complex process, there are a few possible drawbacks to this approach that Lageson notes. First, the most likely records to be cleared are those from very minor offenses, which may not be the types of records that are preventing people from securing jobs and safe housing.
“There's also a racial equity question which is, if people with more serious records are being cut out of Clean Slate...that is often a reflection of police and prosecutorial discretion from 10-20 years ago, or racially-biased policymaking around sentencing or the criminalization of certain offenses or over-policing in certain neighborhoods,” says Lageson.
Talk Justice episodes are available online and on Spotify, Stitcher, Apple and other popular podcast apps. The podcast is sponsored by LSC’s Leaders Council.
The next episode of the podcast will feature a discussion with Minnesota Supreme Court Justice Anne K. McKeig, the first Native American woman to serve on a state Supreme Court.